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document.write("<h5>apples vs apples</h5>");
document.write("This totally ignores the gearing that can be applied to property especially where rents approach repayments. To compare the two vehicles you must assume the property is fully paid for in which case net rental income should be added to the capital growth.. Mike");
document.write("<h5>Agree with Mike</h5>");
document.write("The difference in funding mechanisms is not taken into account.You can make a fortune and lose one dabbling in both asset classes.. OJ");
document.write("<h5>Gearing is bad. Very bad!</h5>");
document.write("It is why the world is in this financial mess to begin with. If you want a brilliant explanation why then check out:<br /><br />http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/2009/02/20/the-crisis-of-credit-visualized/. D");
document.write("<h5>Capital?</h5>");
document.write("The big difference is also that the bank will lend you a million rand to invest in a property, try and get that sort of money to invest in shares. This article basically assumes that you have the cash to invest in both, this is probably not true of the majority of South Africans out there.. Glenn");
document.write("<h5>Property vs. shares</h5>");
document.write("The world's equity market is in an unprecendented mess with new bad news revelations cropping up daily. We actually do not know where it is going. And have you ever tried to live in a share certificate?. doug");
document.write("<h5>Ask the expert???</h5>");
document.write("The article is very simplistic and misleading. Come on I Africa you can find better \"experts\"!. Row");
document.write("<h5>The Truth.....</h5>");
document.write("The truth is that shares are based on perception and the real values often differ from perception, the current crisis is testimony to that.<br /><br />A property may slump in value, may increase in value but at the end, it's there. You can see it, touch it, appreciate it, enjoy it, use it and decide for yourself if and when you want to sell it. At the very least, you know where your money was spent.<br /><br />The same can not be said of shares, not anymore. As far as I'm concerned it's a scam industry setup to enrich the rich.. Thinker");
document.write("<h5>Shares rule</h5>");
document.write("Whatever the arguments the following fact remains true: Over the long-term shares have ALWAYS outperformed all other asset classes.  What more reason would you want to invest in shares?<br /><br />Also, you usually need to borrow money to buy property while almost anyone can invest in a couple of shares.<br /><br />If you don't see the point of investing in shares (and a bit, not too much, in property) then you probably don't understand a thing about investing.. Pieter Groenewald");
document.write("<h5>Thinker please explain that last point</h5>");
document.write("Why do you say it is a scam industry setup to enrich the rich?. D");
document.write("<h5>Hello</h5>");
document.write("[quote]Shares rule<br />Whatever the arguments the following fact remains true: Over the long-term shares have ALWAYS outperformed all other asset classes[/quote]<br />Can you say the same now? Do you believe what you say or do you say it to ensure the traders keep their jobs?<br /><br />[quote]What more reason would you want to invest in shares?[/quote]<br />Lower risk=Lower gains but lower gain is better than net loss.<br /><br />[quote]Also, you usually need to borrow money to buy property while almost anyone can invest in a couple of shares.[/quote]<br />True. Said another way, the rich can invest in property if they choose or those that hold down a steady job to qualify for a bank loan. For the rest, they poor enough to gamble their money on shares. You need the poor to be rich.<br /><br />[quote]If you don't see the point of investing in shares (and a bit, not too much, in property) then you probably don't understand a thing about investing.. Pieter Groenewald[/quote]<br />Lets say I thought I did but now I don't. I don't have confidence in shares. I do not support that industry.. Thinker");
document.write("<h5>answer</h5>");
document.write("[quote]Why do you say it is a scam industry setup to enrich the rich?. D[/quote]<br />Who makes the real money? You can take R1 from every South African and become rich, but you cannot enrich those people equivalently. You can be Sol Kerzner investing and making loads of money on lower risk investments but using higher capital inputs. The ones that invest relatively little need to carry higher risk to see returns worth talking about in their lifetime. During this time, things happen...this crisis for one. Other global impacts like future fuels, food supplies, environmental concerns, all of which change the rules of the game....The rich have the resources to buffer the days they lose, the poor don't. It's make or break.<br /><br />It should be obvious that I'm no economist, but I tell it like I see  it. Like the motor industry, if you in the trading industry, maybe you need to start thinking of a change in career...I don't see a future in it based on current rules of the game.. Thinker");
document.write("<h5>Thinker isn't much of a thinker</h5>");
document.write("Even when taking the dismal performace of 2008 and all other bear markets into account, shares still beat property as an investment by a massive margin over the long-term.<br /><br />You obviously don't understand the fact that volatility is not the same as risk.<br /><br />Over the long-term (five to ten years or more) there is no risk in investing in shares.  <br /><br />I don't think you understand the market, bru.. Robert van der Merwe");
document.write("<h5>So tell me....</h5>");
document.write("- why does the stock market crash based on property investments?<br />- what do you say to the people in the USA without homes, without pensions due to the stock market crash?<br />- You're right, I don't understand why shares, being all you say they are, still leave the markets in tatters today.<br />- volatility and risk to me is like a sleeping volcano. It's a risk because it's a volcano. It becomes volatile when it erupts. Only you don't know WHEN it will erupt. <br /><br />This global crisis didn't just 'happen'. Yet pre-crisis, did anybody take the trouble to warn their clients? Whats the risk of this event repeating itself?<br /><br />Like you say, I don't understand, but I'm here to learn from the pro's.. Thinker");
document.write("<h5>It is a scam</h5>");
document.write("Between SARS, inflation and the big financial institutions the little guy doesn't really stand much of a chance.<br /><br />If he does try to save, he is paying intermediaries commission, financial institution bull#### fees, half his interest goes to SARS, and the rest is eroded away by inflation.<br /><br />If he tries to buy shares he gets nailed by SARS when he tries to sell them (if he profited), and he really needs to invest a lot of money in order to rely on a decent annual divident payout, and there are brokerage fees.<br /><br />I believe that if you spread your money (15% of your salary) appropriately across the various asset classes: cash, property, equities and bonds over your lifetime, you can retire slightly more comfortably than if you trust an insurance company or financial adviser to do this for you.<br /><br />You just need to read the business news every day, and take it upon yourself to learn about how to invest your money successfully. Read web sites, read books, read our government legislation and become more informed. This stuff is not wizardry. You can understand it!<br /><br />But right now the best thing to do (probably) is to buy gold and stuff it under your mattress, or hide it somewhere safe.. D");
document.write("<h5>I agree</h5>");
document.write("[quote]But right now the best thing to do (probably) is to buy gold and stuff it under your mattress, or hide it somewhere safe.. D[/quote]<br /><br />It comes back to my notion that investing a property is preferred as you have something \"solid\", concrete. Buying Gold is the same. Yet when you buy shares, of a company for instance, the value is not \"solid\". It's a perceived value that can change between morning and afternoon...let alone 5 to 10 years.. Thinker");
document.write("<h5>Why does the stock market crash based on property investments?</h5>");
document.write("Because leverage was used to purchase those properties. The collateralised debt obligations (CDO's) were sold to investors, who lapped them up because the ratings agencies gave them AAA ratings.<br /><br />Nobody thought to question the saying \"safe as houses\". But when the sub prime mortgages started to default, house prices started to drop. This meant the CDO's were next to worthless, and nobody wanted to buy them because they essentially represent houses that were bought at 120%-130% of their market value.<br /><br />Investors started selling shares in the institutions that held these toxic assets, then everyone started selling shares to buy bonds or just convert to cash, or gold.. D");
document.write("<h5>Shares best for building long-term wealth</h5>");
document.write("The value of property is NOT solid and also changes.  Shares, obviously, is more volatile but this volatility evens out over the longer term.<br /><br />Shares over the longer-term is not volatile and do offer better returns than ANY other asset class.<br /><br />. Warren");
document.write("<h5>A few comments....</h5>");
document.write("Who polices the rating agencies? Who's responsibility is it to ensure the ratings are kept realistic or not? Is this the clients problem or traders problem?<br /><br />I accept that property prices vary but considering the SA property market, unless you've had a squatter camp spring up across the road from you, I can't remember a time anybody really ever 'lost on property'. At the end you still end up with a fixed asset, one that you can at least rent out and generate a little income.<br /><br />Everything we say(you say) about shares, is based on global trends and market trends up to now. Here on out everybody is in unchartered territory with shares. Looking at whats happening with the dollar losing it's stability, the bale out plans,etc it remains uncertain how the markets will react...so I'd say Gold or Property or anything that doesn't disappear when the share prices/values crash.<br /><br />Long term is ok for people who can wait long term. Your monthly player thats got what lets say R1000/month to play probably wants a short to mid term gain. People have less and less to spend so they want more and more money and they not really up to waiting 10 years for that. SO those that can wait are probably those that don't need it or can take a knock anyway.. Thinker");
document.write("<h5>Property loser</h5>");
document.write("Thinker is missing the boat completely.  Most people saving for retirement are looking at long-term investments.  And if you're looking long-term, shares are your best bet.<br /><br />What do you mean \"... I can't remember a time anybody really ever 'lost on property'...\"  According to the article you lost on property from 1986 to 2002 and only from then to 2006 would you have gained.  But then you would also have gained in the share market.<br /><br />Remember, if you don't beat inflation you lose and for 16 years in a row property owners lost.<br /><br />And that's not even taking into account the money spent on upkeep of the property.  (You don't have to maintain shares)<br /><br />Thinker is certainly passionate about this topic, but his arguments do not hold water.<br /><br />I believe investing in property other than the house you live in is a huge mistake and the objective numbers prove my point.. Cheryl Stefan");
document.write("<h5>Property vs. Others</h5>");
document.write("In 1996 I bought 4 Kruger Rands for R 1600.00 and a lump sum R.A. from Old Mutual invested in The World Balanced Fund for R 15 000.00  -  I have just sold the KR’s for R 28 044.00 and having turned 55 have also become entitled, and will, to the proceeds of the R.A., a measly R 24 000.00 <br /><br />The annualised returns are; the KR’s 24.64% - the R.A. 3.68% <br /><br />I also invested, and continue to so, in Allan Gray’s Equity Fund. My annualised return has been 23% p.a. to date. I bought my house in 1995 and were I to sell it today, which I am thinking of doing to move to a smaller place, my annualised return based on the cost price + costs will be 13.18% based on the best offer that I have received. If I had simply paid the minimum bond payment, I would still owe on the house. Instead I killed off the bond as quickly as I could. Had I invested those sums into Allan Gray’ equity fund instead, I would have been better off today by over R 450 000.00 – My conclusion is a simple one – equities have a greater return than property and Gold, for those who like to stroke their wealth, is no slouch either.     <br />. Quidditas");
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